"Gryphon McArthur" Avstry #1
Gryphon McArthur from Ocean Air Flight Services, discusses what it takes to get a pilot's license, Light sport aircraft, and what you can do after you have your license.
Published Date: Tue, 08 May 2012
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J.R. Warmkessel: Hi Everyone! Welcome, welcome to my podcast. This is, this is the premiere episode, the first episode just getting, getting warmed up and we're trying to learn how to do all this and do all that kind of stuff. Why don't you tell us a little about yourself, actually let's start with, you have any pilot's license and what... what are they?
Gryphon McArthur: Oh, yeah, sure. Well, first of all, it's good to be here, and I got my private pilot's license going on eight years ago through the Santa Cruz Flying Club. I now have an instrument rating and with any luck, I'll have my commercial multi-engine here in another month.
J.R. Warmkessel: Okay, so you're, you're a, a pilot in, in, in progress,
Gryphon McArthur: You know, it's a never ending journey.
J.R. Warmkessel: What do they say, a lesson to learn?
Gryphon McArthur: Absolutely.
J.R. Warmkessel: Fantastic. But, more than that, you also own a flying club, why don't you tell us a little about that?
Gryphon McArthur: Well, no, actually. To qualify, general manager here at Ocean Air Flight Services, and, so, you know, that is more herding cats than anything else, right? I've got a, a great team of maintenance folk and, and also my front office manager who actually runs the business, right? And, besides doing aircraft rental, maintenance and inspections, we're also laser-grade PSI testing facility. So that's for pilots doing their FAA written exams, right, it's a computer based testing. Yeah, and, then sort of a, a side business is aircraft sales. And we find that that actually really is a good tie-in to the rest of the business. We'll sell a plane and then, of course, the owner of that plane is gonna want to have maintenance support and what not. So we're able to kind of couple the two , West Coast Support Aircraft is the aircraft sales business and Ocean Air Flight Services.
J.R. Warmkessel: So, fantastic. So, you know, I was, strangely enough, I was just talking to someone yesterday about how to learn how to fly and, could you maybe just hit the high points of what it takes to get a pilot's license and kind of what your thoughts are there?
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah, well, actually I get asked that quite a lot by people walking in that don't really know what's entailed in learning how to fly and there are a few steps in the process, right? So, the interesting thing that I like to point out right up front is that you don't need any sort of pilot's license or certificate to actually get in a plane with a flight instructor, take the controls, and fly that airplane your very first time in the sky.
J.R. Warmkessel: That's pretty cool actually, if you think about it.
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, generally, after that first flight, the CFI fills out a logbook with that, you know, logs that those first, you know, maybe it's only a half an hour or an hour of flight time, but it actually counts towards the minimum hours required to get a pilot certificate. And there's actually a few options now, in terms of your initial pilot certificate. It used to be that most people were, you know, training for what's called a private pilot's certificate, which has associated with it, a minimum of forty hours of actual flight time. There's now also a certificate called a sport pilot certificate, which is more limited in terms of the privileges associated with that certification. But, it only requires a minimum of twenty hours of flight time.
J.R. Warmkessel: Oh cool, so it's half the time.
Gryphon McArthur: Half the time, and therefore, half the cost. It could be actually even more than less than half. That doesn't make sense, even less than half,
J.R. Warmkessel: Fair enough, so it's cheaper,
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah, yeah, it's it's less expensive both because the number of hours is reduced, but then also because light-sport aircraft, generally speaking, cost less to operate.
J.R. Warmkessel: So, so tell me a little bit about light-sport aircraft,
Gryphon McArthur: Sure, sure. Well, the light-sport category is defined by a number of characteristics , an aircraft that has a max gross weight of less than 1,320 pounds, has a cruising speed of under 120 knots. It's limited to two seats, it's limited to a fixed-gear aircraft, the exception there is if it's an amphibious plane. You can actually have a float plane that's in the light-sport category, in which case its max gross weight is increased by 100 pounds and it's allowed to actually have more complex landing gear as part of its float system.
J.R. Warmkessel: Right, but, but generally, the light-sports' kind of aimed at the, the lower-end of the market, the people who are just starting to learn to fly?
Gryphon McArthur: You know, it's interesting. I don't know that it's necessarily aimed at people learning to fly or the low-end of the market. You find some really high-end light-sport planes out there. But, the initial impetus for creating the sport pilot rating and the category of light-sport aircraft was, in fact, to provide a lower-cost alternative for flight training. But, it was also a convenient way for the FAA to deal with ultralight aircraft, which were continuing to evolve into more and more capable, from ultralight on up to light aircraft that were then starting to become very much like a, what we call a type-certificated, fully-fledged aircraft. Yeah, so, anyway, we kind of digressed from flight training there into the light-sport aircraft and sport pilot kind of area, but coming back to how light-sport planes and the sport pilot certificate specifically help us in terms of getting new pilots, because, you know, as costs increase, of course what we're seeing is that fewer and fewer people are becoming pilots.
J.R. Warmkessel: Yeah, that, that's a real concern, I think, that I'm watching the pilot population get older and older and older,
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah, yeah, and, you know, this is going to impact, certainly commercial airlines that are gonna be short on experienced commercial pilots, But, it impacts the entire industry also, because if you don't have enough planes flying, then you can't support as many airports. That's a vicious cycle, as you start closing down a lot of the smaller general aviation airports, then, not only, you know, is there less opportunity for people to learn to fly, because it becomes less and less convenient. But, you know, there's other impacts as well. Those that do have planes now have fewer options,
J.R. Warmkessel: You have to go farther to get to the airport,
Gryphon McArthur: Absolutely. That's right, yeah,
J.R. Warmkessel: Okay, well, so that's kind of the light-sport and, I noticed that, here in Watsonville, you're one of the few or the only light-sport places where you can get a light-sport plane. Is that, is that in fact, the case?
Gryphon McArthur: It is, it is. So, at the Watsonville airport, none of the other operations that have aircraft for rent have light-sport category planes. And that has been a great differentiator for Ocean Air Flight Services and I think it's one of the reasons that we fly at capacity. I mean, our schedule is packed from morning till night and we actually see that the light-sport planes fly much more consistently than, say the Cessna 172SP and the Archer III. You know, people that are working on their instrument certificates, you know, they'd be training in the larger four-seat aircraft. But, a lot of the people working on their private, or even starting on basic instrument training can do so in a light-sport plane and it counts just as much as a larger four-seat plane toward, you know, the flight time required, which, circling back to your initial question about what's it take, what's involved in terms of getting your pilot's license. The forty hours for a private pilot, twenty hours for a sport pilot. There's a third category, a recreational pilot, which I'm not as familiar with actually , that was something that was introduced before sport pilot and never seemed to really catch on.
J.R. Warmkessel: Yeah, I think it was a limited-value proposition.
Gryphon McArthur: Right, right. And, and interestingly, a lot of student pilots that come in initially thinking that they will get a sport pilot's certificate, as they get further along in their training, they realize that it's not that much further to go to get a full private pilot certificate and all the flight time that they've been accruing in a light-sport category plane counts towards that private pilot certificate.
J.R. Warmkessel: And that's with a, a certified instructor, right?
Gryphon McArthur: The CFI, yeah, absolutely. But even solo time, right? So, once you're signed off to fly solo, again, whether it's in the 172SP or a Tecnam P92 Eaglet, it's the same flight time in your logbook towards that minimum required number of hours.
J.R. Warmkessel: Fantastic. So, to take a little diversion, can you talk a little bit about the Tecnam aircraft that you carry and, and rent,
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah, absolutely. And then, I will, I will still, I will insist upon coming back and talking about the rest of what's involved.
J.R. Warmkessel: Oh, okay. Well, tell you, why don't you, why don't you do that first?
Gryphon McArthur: I like these little segues, you know, it's, it's fine. So, I'll give you a little bit of history. Fist of all, when I was investigating the sport pilot certificate training for that, providing that training I should say. I also did diligence to go out and fly as many light sport category aircraft as I could get my hands on and the one that, to me, was head and shoulders above the rest in terms of the construction of the aircraft, the aerodynamic abilities or I should say performance and stability of the aircraft, is this Italian-made Tecnam manufacturer who actually has more than just one model of aircraft. There are now six or seven light sport models.
J.R. Warmkessel: You can tell that light sport has been very successful.
Gryphon McArthur: Absolutely. Yeah, and interestingly here in the United States, Tecnam is not the largest manufacturer by volume in the United States, by a long shot, actually. The largest manufacturer within the U.S. in terms of registered aircraft is the Flight Design and they have only a few models of high wing composite light sport plane. Whereas Tecnam, you have to look worldwide to really appreciate how many aircraft they have currently flying in upwards of 4 thousand aircraft. Many of which are either light sport category here in the U.S. or the same aircraft considered a advanced ultralight or other light aircraft flying in Europe, but I think that actually is one of the reason why the Tecnam planes are I think head and shoulders above the rest. They were not built to the light sport specification, which is an ASTM consensus standard, if anybody actually knows what that is. I don't, but the manufacturers that were building planes specifically to be light sport aircraft they were making trade offs as you have to in order to get to the manufacturing cost price point for materials and whatnot. The trade off in terms of performance, in terms of choice of materials, and design that sort of thing. Tecnam kind of came about, it came about, it from a different angle, which was that they had already designed and built these aircraft as fully certified aircraft in Europe.
J.R. Warmkessel: Right.
Gryphon McArthur: And then they were able to bring them into the United States by making them conform, on paper anyway, to the light sport category limitation.
J.R. Warmkessel: And really the light sport category came about largely to support the European standards, right?
Gryphon McArthur: I don't think so. I may be wrong in that regard, but no. I think that the ASTM consensus standard was driven, certainly, by a number of stakeholders that wanted their particular existing aircraft to automatically conform.
J.R. Warmkessel: Well, indeed there's that it suits the market.
Gryphon McArthur: Absolutely. Absolutely, but nonetheless I think that one of the main drivers for, as I said before, the sport pilot certificate and the new. Well, five years old now almost six. So not so new, but light sport category of aircraft was organizations like the EAA that had or have.
J.R. Warmkessel: What's the EAA?
Gryphon McArthur: Experimental Aircraft Association.
J.R. Warmkessel: Okay.
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah. They have an interest in promoting aviation and providing resources for student pilots. In fact one of their programs call Young Eagles, is very instrumental in continuing to have young kids develop an interest in aviation and perhaps want to become pilots.
J.R. Warmkessel: Yeah, I think one of my favorite parts about the Young Eagles program is how it gives you a direct application of things like mathematics, weather, physics, and how do you apply these things you learn at school to the real world.
Gryphon McArthur: Sure. Yeah. Absolutely, and there are many different things that will cause a mind to work, either mathematical or physical problems or whatnot, and I think an airplane and that is one of the coolest way of getting a kid excited about science, about math, about physics. It's something very tangible. Something very real and romantic as well and I don't know if there's a romantic appeal necessarily to young kids, but they're certainly one of those when I was a kid. What did I like? I like trains, construction equipment, airplanes.
J.R. Warmkessel: Airplanes.
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah. Right?
J.R. Warmkessel: Even to this day, I think I look up in the sky and, "Oh, there's an airplane."
Gryphon McArthur: Alright, so I keep trying to pull the conversation back into previous questions that you asked that I never fully got a chance to answer.
J.R. Warmkessel: Well, let's pull back.
Gryphon McArthur: So yeah. Let's backtrack to first to Tecnam.
J.R. Warmkessel: Okay.
Gryphon McArthur: I'll finish up there and then back to just pilot training in general.
J.R. Warmkessel: Okay. Fantastic.
Gryphon McArthur: Sure. Where shall I pick it up? I'll talk about as far as Tecnam goes, I was mentioning that they have many models of light sport category planes.
J.R. Warmkessel: Okay.
Gryphon McArthur: So this is something that I also thought was a reason to pick Tecnam was sort of for our training program. We, Ocean Air when I say we I wear my Ocean Air Flight Services hat for example.
J.R. Warmkessel: Sure.
Gryphon McArthur: We're a Tecnam flight center, which provides the sport pilot training with a online and via iPad. You could call it a multimedia type training, ground school training, course. Other aspects of Tecnam flight center, but one of the big one of course is that we use Tecnam's light sport planes. So as far as models, they have both a very popular high wing model called the P92 Eaglet. Also a very sexy low wing model called the Sierra. So it's got one of these slide back canopies that you can actually open and fly it if you want like a convertible.
J.R. Warmkessel: Sure. Like a Tiger.
Gryphon McArthur: Pretty much like a yeah. Like a little Gruman Tiger. Right. So and those two planes are a great training platform and Tecnam has, beyond that, other models: The Bravo, the Echo. They have one that they don't even have a fancy name for. They just call it the P2008, which is sort of their high end luxury model LSA.
J.R. Warmkessel: So it almost feels like they have different models to serve different missions.
Gryphon McArthur: Absolutely.
J.R. Warmkessel: Is that common procedure in air aviation?
Gryphon McArthur: I think you see larger manufacturers that certainly have the different models. You look at Piper, right? From the Cherokee to the Archer and on up. I mean, the Seneca. As you transition from a small plane to a large plane. Tecnam kind of is a larger manufacturer. They're a 60 company that doesn't just produce light aircraft. They also build airframe components for very large manufacturers like Boeing and they also actually have a progression from these two place light sport planes through to, what just came out of successful flight test, a single engine four place that's going to go head-to-head probably with the Cessna 182.
J.R. Warmkessel: Wow.
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah. More performance, less of a price tag. Plus they've got their four place twin, which is ideally suited for training environments that are looking for a more cost-effective twin engine trainer, right? The only alternatives right now on the market: the Diamond DA42 and the Piper, I believe that is the Seneca. You're looking at a 100 or 200 thousand dollars more on the initial price tag and then the operating costs are almost double of what the P2006T, the light twin from Tecnam, will incur in terms of initial total cost of ownership, right? Initial acquisition costs and then ongoing operation costs. So but I digress.
J.R. Warmkessel: That's okay. That's we have time to digress and that's one of the advantages of having your own podcast.
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah. Absolutely. Anyway, enough talk about Tecnam. Getting back to just flight training in general, right? Let me finish painting that picture and then we can see where else the conversation leads us.
J.R. Warmkessel: Sure.
Gryphon McArthur: After that first intro flight, there's a few options available to the now student pilot. At some point, there is a written test to take and so one of the best approaches, I think, is to not worry about studying for that test right off out of the gate. Instead, go up and fly with an instructor. Start to understand the relationship of the control inputs and how the aircraft behaves and just some of the mechanics of flying. To give the student a context within which they can better understand a lot of the book learning that they're going to have to do, which is what we call the ground school, right?
J.R. Warmkessel: Okay.
Gryphon McArthur: And ground school consists of a number of topics, right? Ranging from aircraft systems, aerodynamics, weather is a very big component that one learns about.
J.R. Warmkessel: What are they trying to get you to know kind of in this ground school segment area?
Gryphon McArthur: Sure. I like to think of it as the ground school is giving you all of the knowledge that you need in order to make intelligent choices as a pilot, right? Which comes down to well before you get in the plane or you're trying to fly somewhere. Some of the choices that you make as a pilot are when to fly, when not to fly is almost more important, right?
J.R. Warmkessel: Right. Right.
Gryphon McArthur: As when to fly. So without knowing all of the information that informs those decisions and actually there's a fair number of rules, which you have to learn and then be able to apply almost automatically in terms of what ends up being usually a very rich, multi-factored decision process that our brains are able to condense down into a feeling of, "Yeah, based on the forecast weather and the capabilities of my aircraft, I'm not going to choose to go the northern route. I'm going to choose to go the southern route and if weather continues to degrade then I'm going to not fly at all." Something like that is one potential scenario.
J.R. Warmkessel: Okay.
Gryphon McArthur: But getting back to the ground school in general, the various topics. A lot of people, I think, have it in their heads that ground school is nothing more than cramming for the written exam. Alright, and then once you pass the written exam then you coast for a while until you cram again for the oral exam that's part of your final check ride, right? And often that comes in because that's the way we studied exams in school, right?
J.R. Warmkessel: Right.
Gryphon McArthur: And I would like to put out there that learning to fly, although there are programs like Embry-Riddle, right? It's a program that you sign up for and it's a mill. They try and cram as much information into your head in a short period of time as possible and spit you out the other end with a pilot certificate and I'm sure that, for that, there is a lot of cramming that happens and what happens is you get pilots that: yes, they have a pilot certificate, but maybe they're not really pilots yet. They've only earned their license to learn and now they need to rack up quite a number of hours and live through the first hundred or so and most pilots are lucky enough to at least survive the mishaps that they end up putting themselves in for the first few hours of being a pilot and learn a lot from it.
J.R. Warmkessel: I think it's excellent training that keeps people alive.
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, let me get back to again to the ground school portion. That is an ongoing learning process and I think the best way to do that you can take a sort of classroom ground school, where it's like every. At Ocean Air, we have night for a month and a half. It's at night. Two nights a week ground school class where it's with other students and it's a group learning kind of thing.
J.R. Warmkessel: Okay.
Gryphon McArthur: And the alternative to that is just one-on-one with the flight instructor that you fly with. So you spend some time in the plane flying, but you also spend time on the ground. Hence ground school and you talk about what's relevant to particular stage of your flight training: from learning about aircraft systems through to interpreting weather data and calling flight service, getting a briefing, and then making intelligent decisions based on that information. So either way, the ground school portion is a big part of becoming a pilot. So flight training, ground school, the little interim hurdles that you have to be able to clear are that written exam.
J.R. Warmkessel: Right.
Gryphon McArthur: Right, which is a computer-based test that the FAA actually publishes the questions and answers ahead of time for. So you really can cram for it and do quite well, but.
J.R. Warmkessel: You take that test here at Ocean Air?
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah. So as a Lasergrade PSI testing center, we are set up to administer both FAA tests for pilot certification, for mechanics, for air traffic controllers, for parachute packers, all sorts of different certifications and then interestingly there's other vocational tests that the same testing system. We'll see underground storage tank technicians. I thought that was one of the stranger ones, but so that the test, the written test, and then ultimately once you've nailed all your flight maneuvers that you're training on doing ground reference maneuvers, flying under the hood, right? Instrument type flying, then what we call the check ride. That is the final test and that's an oral examination and a practical, which is where you go up in the plane and you demonstrate your ability to fly that airplane. Yeah.
J.R. Warmkessel: So thinking back to your training, what do you think was the most surprising part of the learning experience that you'd want to pass on to a novice?
Gryphon McArthur: Most surprising?
J.R. Warmkessel: Well, unexpected or.
Gryphon McArthur: Sure, sure. There's a few things that will, I think, stand out clearly in the mind of any pilot. One of them is the very first time that you are at the controls of that airplane with no instructor sitting next to you in the right seat.
J.R. Warmkessel: Yeah. I remember that well.
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah. Yeah. And it's this mixture of incredible freedom and, of course, a little bit of nervousness and all sorts of other emotions, right? That.
J.R. Warmkessel: I'm going to have to land this thing.
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah. Yeah. And it are the type that allows for self-doubt, then the what ifs of what if I can't land it? Am I just going to fly it around in a circle until it runs out of fuel or? Yeah.
J.R. Warmkessel: Little bit scary, but I wouldn't think that an instructor would let you out to go do that unless you are, he thought you are, ready.
Gryphon McArthur: No, you're absolutely right. So yeah. Yeah. He or she will not sign you off to solo. They put their, literally, put their name on the line and when they sign the back of your student pilot certificate that you are endorsed to then solo in that particular aircraft. So no. They're not going to do it until they know that you're well able to land that plane and do it in a variety of conditions.
J.R. Warmkessel: So once you have your pilots license, what kind of things have you done with it that our listeners might be interested in participating in or trying out? Any cool places you've been?
Gryphon McArthur: Countless at this point. I'm very fortunate in that regard. I've flown out to Oshkosh, Wisconsin, now for three years in a row.
J.R. Warmkessel: Why would you do that?
Gryphon McArthur: Yes, well that is the home of the EAA. The Experimental Aircraft Association and they have the biggest air show. I would like to say the biggest in the world. I don't know if there still is some international air shows that are bigger AirVenture, but thousands upon thousands of aircraft land every year during the week of AirVenture in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Many of them park and camp on the sides of one of the runways. It is just a huge, huge aviation event and so I've three year in a row now gone out to that. First year, flew out there in 172SP with my girlfriend who's also a pilot. So yeah. And year after that, it was a group of them in some experimental RV aircraft.
J.R. Warmkessel: What's an RV?
Gryphon McArthur: RV are experimental aircraft, kit plane basically, in a number of different models. The ones we flew out to Oshkosh were the RV-6 and RV-7 models. Both tricycle gear and conventional tail wheel and the really cool thing about it, these were all low wing planes and ideal for formation flight. So a lot of the way out there, I mean, it's a long flight. So we would amuse ourselves by flying in various formations. Sometimes tight formation. Sometimes, which can be quite tiring to do for a long period of time. So then, sometimes, we'd just fly in loose formation, but it was just a great experience to have a group of us flying out together to Oshkosh.
J.R. Warmkessel: You got a bunch of people of like-minds all hanging out at the airshow for a week.
Gryphon McArthur: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, and not all of them are necessarily pilots. Not all of them are necessarily aircraft builders, but we all share one thing in common, which is a love for aviation and anything basically that flies.
J.R. Warmkessel: To me, that's the most exciting part about aviation is the community around it. There's so many people who want to share their experience with you and want to help you learn to fly or try a new airplane or have a new experience.
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So Oshkosh is an amazing experience. Some of the other places that are not almost halfway, or more than halfway, across the country, local spots here in California. There are some amazing places to fly into. Shelter Cove, which is the Lost Coast up north of here. North of Watsonville and isolated kind of area that you can either be on a narrow, winding mountain road to get to or you can fly in and visit for the day assuming it's not fogged in, but also 45 minutes from Watsonville, Harris Ranch, fly out there for dinner.
J.R. Warmkessel: I've been there many times.
Gryphon McArthur: Yeah. So basically anyplace that is walking distance from an airfield, especially if it's a restaurant. Right, you go for the hundred dollar hamburger.
J.R. Warmkessel: A hundred dollar hamburger.
Gryphon McArthur: It will normally cost you a lot more than a hundred dollars these days, but it's not the burger, right? It's the getting there.
J.R. Warmkessel: The camaraderie and the friendship.
Gryphon McArthur: It's the experience. The package.
J.R. Warmkessel: Well, I guess that's pretty exciting. I think I've learned a lot about learning how to fly an airplane or get a pilot's license and learned a little bit about sports pilots. Any closing thoughts you want to share with our people, our audience?
Gryphon McArthur: Well, I would just encourage any of your audience that haven't yet experienced the perspective of being up in the sky at the controls of an airplane to give it a try, because you might just get hooked like I did and assuming that a number of listeners are already pilots. They may be pilots that haven't been up in the air for a while and I would encourage them to get out and visit your airport, where ever that may be near you, and rent a plane if you don't have one and go up and if you're not current, get your BFR, you biannual flight review. If you don't have a current medical, that's okay. Just find someplace that has a light sport plane and you can fly sport pilot rules, right? Even with a private pilot certificate without a current medical. That's one of the stipulations, or I should say it's one of the nice things about flying sport pilot rules, is that you don't need a current medical certificate. So, anyway, that's what I leave your listeners with is just encouraging everyone to get up in the sky because it's good for your soul.
J.R. Warmkessel: Sure is, and if you're close to Watsonville, how would they find you at Ocean Air here?
Gryphon McArthur: We're easy to find. 170 Aviation Way. If you're on Airport Boulevard, right? Then it's going to be basically your first left off of Airport Boulevard after you've exited from Highway 1 and then you look to your left and you see a big hangar with a big sign that says Ocean Air Flight Services. So we're really quite hard to miss.
J.R. Warmkessel: And I sure liked your website when I saw that.
Gryphon McArthur: I guess this is my chance to give it a plug so.
J.R. Warmkessel: Plug away.
Gryphon McArthur: Absolutely. So www.oceanairflightservices.com and while I'm at it I might as well make the pitch for Tecnam aircraft since we are a dealer for Tecnam aircraft as well or I should say not Ocean Air Flight Services. That is a service center, but for aircraft sales it's West Coast Sport Aircraft and you guessed it. It's http://www.westcoastsportaircraft.com/
J.R. Warmkessel: Well, Gryphon, thank you so much for your time and I really enjoyed it.
Gryphon McArthur: Absolutely. I enjoyed it as well. So thank you.
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